Anthony Fauci was once presented as the unimpeachable voice of science. Now, confronted with questions about gain-of-function research, the Wuhan laboratory and what government officials knew about COVID-19’s origins, he has invoked the Fifth Amendment 111 times. Former CIA analyst Ray McGovern joins Robert Scheer to examine the newly released documents, the intelligence agencies accused of burying the truth and a corporate press more interested in protecting official narratives than exposing them. Millions died, the world was upended—and Washington still believes the public is not entitled to honest answers.
For years, Americans were told to trust the experts, obey the restrictions and stop asking whether COVID-19 might have emerged from a laboratory conducting dangerous research with American support. Now Anthony Fauci—the public face of the government’s pandemic response—has invoked the Fifth Amendment 111 times rather than answer congressional questions.
In this latest installment of Scheer Intelligence, former CIA analyst Ray McGovern joins Robert Scheer to examine allegations that U.S.-funded gain-of-function research continued overseas, evidence about a possible Wuhan laboratory leak was suppressed and intelligence assessments were shaped to protect powerful officials. They also confront the corporate media’s role in enforcing the official narrative while ridiculing or ignoring those demanding an investigation.
The Fifth Amendment protects every American, and invoking it is not proof of guilt. But after millions of deaths, sweeping restrictions and years of official secrecy, the public deserves more than silence. It deserves to know who authorized this research, what officials knew, why contrary evidence was buried—and whether anyone in Washington will ever be held accountable.
Monday With McGovern: Fauci, COVID Origins, and the Intelligence Community’s Quiet War Over the Truth
Key Highlights: According to McGovern, Fauci Takes the Fifth — 111 Times, appearing before Rand Paul’s committee and invoking the Fifth Amendment 111 times regarding U.S.-funded gain‑of‑function research in Wuhan—an act McGovern says signals the gravity of what Fauci may be shielding. He pairs this with Tulsi Gabbard’s “Two Binders”, describing her release of declassified documents detailing U.S. funding streams to foreign labs, internal safety warnings, intelligence disputes over COVID’s origin, and Fauci’s alleged private acknowledgment that the virus came from a lab, a disclosure McGovern says mainstream media ignored. McGovern adds that Obama Banned Gain‑of‑Function — Fauci Moved It Offshore, claiming Fauci shifted dangerous research abroad after Obama halted it, funding 120 labs including Wuhan. He then outlines The Intelligence Community Split, arguing that the COVID‑19 Origin Act of 2023 produced a report from DNI Avril Haines that dodged the core question while CIA analysts resisted pressure to support Fauci’s preferred narrative. The most explosive allegation, Fauci’s Diary, asserts Fauci kept a government‑system diary later obtained by Rand Paul showing he privately believed in a lab leak while publicly insisting on natural origins. Scheer and McGovern say Media Silence has shielded Fauci, ignored Gabbard’s documents, marginalized dissenting scientists, and dismissed Rand Paul’s investigation. Finally, The Larger Theme: Secrecy, Elitism, and Unaccountable Power frames the COVID origin debate as part of a broader pattern of intelligence agencies burying inconvenient truths, bureaucratic elites protecting themselves, and media institutions acting as gatekeepers, with Scheer noting that COVID killed millions worldwide while the public still lacks a clear, honest account of how it began.
COVID‑19 reshaped the world, killed millions, and exposed the fragility of global systems — yet the public still doesn’t know how it started. If McGovern’s account is accurate, the truth wasn’t merely obscured by scientific uncertainty but actively buried by officials who feared political fallout. Tulsi Gabbard’s binders, Fauci’s diary, and the intelligence community’s internal revolt all point to a story far more complex — and far more damning — than the sanitized narrative Americans were fed. As Monday With McGovern continues, ScheerPost will dig into the documents, the hearings, and the unanswered questions that mainstream media refuses to touch.
Edited Transcript — “Monday With McGovern”
Robert Scheer:
Hi, this is Robert Scheer with another edition of Scheer Intelligence, where I talk to people who actually know something — whether they worked in the intelligence community, like Ray McGovern, or analyzed it from the outside, like I did as a journalist.
Ray, I’m doing what at least four presidents did — Nixon, Ford, Reagan… who else, Ray?
Ray McGovern:
George H.W. Bush, though he was vice president when I briefed him. I stopped when Reagan left.
Scheer:
Right. Enough with the credentials. Ray has a great bullshit detector and knows how to cut through the fog. And this week we had an incredible event: Rand Paul held a hearing with Anthony Fauci, trying to get to the bottom of the COVID‑19 pandemic — not just the technical question of whether it came from nature or a lab, but the deeper issue of biological weapons research.
In that hearing, Fauci took the Fifth Amendment 111 times. I got that right, Ray?
McGovern:
That’s right.
Scheer:
When dissenters used the Fifth in the past, they were presumed guilty. But the Fifth exists to protect due process. Still, suddenly the establishment circles the wagons around Fauci — of course he had to take the Fifth, they say.
And now they’re blaming Tulsi Gabbard — who was stepping down as Director of National Intelligence — for releasing classified documents about Fauci and COVID origins. She declassified them and criticized how the government handled the truth.
I want to do what those presidents did and ask you: What is going on?
McGovern:
Bob, thanks for having me. This is huge. COVID‑19 affected everyone. My wife almost died. My grandchildren couldn’t go to school. It was catastrophic.
Here’s the deal.
Tulsi Gabbard, as DNI, sat atop all 18 intelligence agencies. She resigned because her husband was sick, but she was already in bad standing with Trump — partly because she told the truth about Iran not working on a nuclear weapon.
On her way out, she said she had looked into something very important: how COVID‑19 originated, who knew what, and when. She recorded a five‑minute video holding two large binders. She said she had declassified all the information and was giving it to the press. She said it was a real indictment of Fauci and others.
At the same time, Rand Paul was preparing a hearing featuring Fauci. He subpoenaed him. Fauci agreed to come — and then invoked the Fifth 111 times.
McGovern:
Now, gain‑of‑function research means taking viruses and making them more virulent. Why? Either to explore biological weapons or to defend against them. Obama banned this research in the U.S. because it was too dangerous.
So Fauci funded it abroad. Eventually there were 120 labs overseas, including 30 in places like Ukraine, doing gain‑of‑function work under Fauci’s institute.
When the virus escaped, Fauci wanted it traced to an animal. The “bat bit an animal, animal went to a market” story. But real scientists didn’t buy it. They knew the research was being done in Wuhan — funded by Fauci.
For the longest time, Fauci denied a lab leak because it would be embarrassing.
Congress passed the COVID‑19 Origin Act in March 2023, requiring the DNI to produce an assessment within 90 days. Avril Haines was tasked with it. She’s known as a fixer — she defended CIA hacking of Senate Intelligence Committee computers when she was Brennan’s deputy.
Her report’s executive summary said: “This report does not address the relative merits of the two most likely pandemic origins.”
In other words: she refused to answer the question.
She said FBI and Department of Energy believed it was a lab leak. But her own National Intelligence Council and four unnamed agencies disagreed. CIA, she claimed, was “unable to determine” the origin.
It was a dodge.
McGovern:
Documents released recently from Fauci’s diary show he knew it was a lab leak. Yet he publicly insisted it came from an animal in a wet market.
There were CIA analysts who complained they were being overruled by Fauci’s people and by Haines. They said they were told what to say.
One footnote in Haines’ report: Several Wuhan researchers fell very ill in fall 2019 with symptoms consistent with COVID‑19 — but “not diagnostic.” The intelligence community said this neither supported nor refuted either hypothesis.
It was bureaucratic mush.
Scheer:
But Ray, the part I don’t understand: Obama banned gain‑of‑function research in the U.S. Fauci moved it abroad. Why did China allow dangerous U.S.-funded research in Wuhan? Trump blamed China for the virus — called it the “China virus.” But the wrinkle is that the Wuhan lab was heavily funded by Fauci and the U.S. government.
Why did China let this happen?
McGovern:
Fauci wasn’t allowed to do it — Obama banned it. But Chinese scientists were working on it too. China would benefit from gain‑of‑function knowledge. It’s relevant to biological warfare.
Trump calling it the “China virus” was political. In a sense, it was Chinese — but the gain‑of‑function work was funded and set up by Fauci in Wuhan. The leak infected people, not animals.
China responded aggressively — quarantining Wuhan and surrounding areas — because they didn’t buy the animal‑spread story.
McGovern:
Fauci kept a diary on government computers. Someone gave it to Rand Paul and Bobby Kennedy. Rand Paul released it about 12 days ago. It shows Fauci knew it was a lab leak while publicly denying it.
Rand Paul, being a doctor, is justified in being upset. He wanted Fauci to explain. Fauci’s lawyers told him to invoke the Fifth every time.
Rand Paul played a video of Fauci repeatedly saying the virus came from a wet market — while his diary said otherwise.
Paul said he would have accepted an apology. None came. The committee may vote to hold Fauci in contempt.
McGovern:
This has huge implications — not only for COVID’s origin but for the intelligence community’s role in covering it up.
CIA analysts said they were told what to say. Haines faced rebellion. She didn’t list the four agencies that agreed with her because they were likely Coast Guard, Space Command, Treasury, or State — none of which have expertise.
Tulsi Gabbard, by contrast, was honest. She told the truth about Iran. And on her way out, she released the documents because she knew they would otherwise be buried.
Scheer:
The mainstream media has trashed Tulsi Gabbard and Rand Paul. Why?
McGovern:
Because the mainstream media will not discuss this. They denigrate Tulsi. They probably haven’t read the binders. They protect Fauci and the establishment.
Anyone who exposes this gets marginalized.
Scheer:
We’ll post Tulsi’s five‑minute video with this interview. And we’ll continue “Monday With McGovern” every week on ScheerPost.
COVID tormented the world and killed somewhere between one and ten million people. We still don’t know the truth. We’ll keep following it.
McGovern:
The elitism is part of the culture — people grow up thinking they’re special. Fauci was paid more than the President. He ran his institute for 38 years. If he did reprehensible things, he should be exposed like anyone else.
I look forward to exposing the truth with you in the weeks to come.
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